TU Cent Thoughts, 12-17-05

[greybeta]

I am of the belief that you should not buy Christmas gifts for your closest friends. That's because your closest friendships transcend material goods.

Having said that, I believe in the first law of alchemy more, in the law of equivalent exchange. So I've been wanting to buy the Macross Saga portion of the Robotech novels for mysterious Phil. We were walking around Barnes and Nobles and we found them. I randomly decided to buy him the Robotech novels for Christmas. In exchange, he bought me C.S. Lewis's Mere Christianity.

I admit I have recently become very interested in C.S. Lewis on the recommendation of angelic Jenny. I told her that I was having a crisis of faith and she pointed me out to the man who is considered to be the classic Christian apologetic. Someone once told me that I do not write like a true believer of Christ. He would be right. I am a doubting Thomas, I need to see the holes in Christ's hands and feet everyday to believe. After talking with several people, I have come to the conclusion that I am a heretic. I have faith, but it is not the traditional fundamental Christian faith. I am too dualistic for me to submit myself one hundred percent to the dogma of Christianity. Yet I know that there's something in Christianity that draws me in.

Then I look at my position in the BSU. I am seriously contemplating stepping down from the leadership team. It is inappropriate for a heretic to masquerade as a Bible study leader. Don't get me wrong, I still believe God. But there are too many things in the Baptist Faith&Message that I disagree with. I now realize the only reason I go to the Baptist church is because of Ralph and Jane, my American grandparents. As long as they walk this green earth, I owe it to them to attend a Baptist church. But to be honest, I'd rather follow the path of the friend that I've known the longest and go to the Episcopalian Church, a denomination that tries to understand other faiths rather than condemn them.

Then again, I agreed to be on the leadership team for one year. I would be going against my word to quit. Sigh, I suppose I am well loved heretic in the BSU. And my most basic philosophies still line up, as I will always be a social conservative and an economic liberal.

Note to self: Sleep inducing meds and driving do not mix.

Convo of the Day:
D2: So when are you going to work today, anime Mike?
Mike: Funny you should mention that.
D2: What?
Mike: I signed the form that said I didn't want to work at Wal Mart anymore.
D2: Sleep shifting get to ya?
Mike: Yeah. So neither you or Jameson win the over/under on one week, because I lasted exactly one week.
D2: Funny you should mention that.
Mike: What?
D2: I lied.
Mike: Huh?
D2: Jameson and I actually argued whether or not you would last even one week. He said less. I said the average person lasts at least one week. So I win.
Mike: Wait a minute...white mages aren't supposed to lie.
D2: Thief...I'm not your standard white mage.

Quote of the Day:
"In relationships, every experience is a good thing."-Mysterious Phil, wldntulk2knwwho

Link of the Day:
What it means to be sempai. I have decided to view myself as the sempai of the BSU dojo. I am to challenge people in their faith, just as they will challenge me.
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Guys tend to get irrational when their sports team is losing. We are strange creatures like that.
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King Kong has been added to the queue of movies I should see over Christmas break. The others, in order:

1. Narnia
2. Rent
3. Harry Potter
-------------------------------------------------
Having the spiritual gift of discernment is like having perfect pitch. You see, a person who has perfect pitch cannot stand to listen to people play music incorrectly because it hurts them. Likewise, a person with the spiritual gift of discernment hates interacting with other people because they cannot stand to see other people behave incorrectly.

This is part of the reason why I am antisocial.
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Do you think I am a heretic?

[Poll #635865]

Comments

[thucyditron.livejournal.com]

I think I'm a heretic, too. I've been considering renouncing Christianity and adopting Stoicism as my formal creed. Care to join me? Note that I may very well be the Devil trying to tempt you.

[greybeta.livejournal.com]

Well, I'll join in heresy but I'm afraid I wouldn't be a Stoic. Oddly enough, we both could be...Satan tempting each other.

[agirlnamedluna.livejournal.com]

I hit "yes", without knowing Baptist Church I know that in the Catholic one I grew up with you weren't considered a heretic as long as you dressed fancily to go to Church ( heh )

There's been many denominations of "heretics" -- but for the Catholic Church, all those not agreeing with Rome would have been heretics.

Hence my yes vote ;)


I am in no way Christian anymore though. Lost that long ago.

[greybeta.livejournal.com]

LOL, no pope tells me what to think...

[stella-x3x3.livejournal.com]

Quote of the Day:
"In relationships, every experience is a good thing."

i like that alot..its cute and true.

[wldntulk2knwwho.livejournal.com]

Thank you. Glad you liked it. :)

[stella-x3x3.livejournal.com]

I just went to your info with full intent to read your whole bio info thing and I saw that you are studying chemical engineering which is what I want to do in college..so I got excited and decided to share that with you..back to my reading.

[greybeta.livejournal.com]

Be careful. That mysterious Phil is a shady character.

[genuinechris.livejournal.com]

Man, social conservitive, economic liberal. I'm the opposite, at least the way that the poplulace is defining 'conservative,' and 'liberal.' I can't stand the government, and I think that America is being strangled by it.

[greybeta.livejournal.com]

So you're a social liberal, economic conservative? I feel like we're matter and anti-matter here...

[genuinechris.livejournal.com]

Right.
Limited government. Don't make stupid laws interfering with life, economic or personal.

[wldntulk2knwwho.livejournal.com]

Yay for the Law of Equivalent Exchange. Two more books added to my queue now.

[greybeta.livejournal.com]

And they're two very good books. I will use Jack McKinney's style for my Nanowrimol

[odclay.livejournal.com]

I don't think you're a heretic. Well, maybe you are. I dunno. But I'm of the opinion that doubt is better than blind faith; it seems to me that one of the central tenants of Christianity is unwavering, unquestioning faith, but it also seems to me that humans are by nature curious and questioning. While some can freely submit, there are plenty more who want to know why they should. What's wrong with that? Would God want us to accept without question or question before accepting?

I'm not a Christian anymore. I still believe in God, but I can't bring myself to believe in the text of a very, very old book. That's one reason I abandoned religion.

[greybeta.livejournal.com]

I am what I am.

[happydog.livejournal.com]

Someone once told me that I do not write like a true believer of Christ. He would be right.

or, he could be dead wrong. What is a "true believer of Christ?" Pat Robertson would say he is one, and there are lots of people who would back him up, who would say that Pat Robertson writes like and talks like a "true believer of Christ."

But by their fruits ye shall know them. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit. And if you listen to what Pat Robertson says, and read what he writes, and pay attention, you will note that he really has very little in common with the Christ.

And truly, what human has the right to judge your faith? Think about that for a moment. What human has the right to judge your faith? What human has the right to censure, or to criticize, how you express your faith in writing?

Who did Jesus come down the hardest on while he was here on earth? Think about it. Wasn't his wrath most often directed toward the Scribes and Pharisees - those who allegedly interpreted God's law according to their own prejudices, and attempted to apply their own prejudices as God's law?

Beware the leaven of the scribes and pharisees. The Scribes and Pharisees never had any doubt that they were absolutely right and knew what God wanted. The whores and the tax collectors, the wine-drinkers and the woman at the well, they knew they weren't doing what the Pharisees said God wanted. They doubted they even knew how. Who did Jesus say would be in the kingdom of Heaven long before the Scribes and Pharisees? Look it up.

Daniel, you can read CS Lewis or not, but one thing I tell you: there is no rational basis for any belief in any god. Humans can argue all they want, and argue they do, and they make rules for God, and make rules for others to follow, rules that they say will lead others to God. Humans argue that there is no god, or that God is like this, or like that. They know nothing.

Daniel, in the final analysis, it is between you and God, you and the Divine. The only way you will know God is to know God yourself. Faith is not rational, it is not scientific. Faith is internal, it is utterly subjective, and it cannot be argued into existence or nonexistence by anyone but yourself.

Many people tell me that there is no God. I cannot deny that there is no scientific proof for God, no tests that can be made, no mathematical analysis that can be done that will prove Her existence. Yet I know that She Is, and that She encompasses all things, and that She is within me, and I within Her. This is a knowledge without proof or apologetics or scriptures. This is a knowledge that I was born with, a bone-knowledge, a heart-knowledge, a blood-knowledge; since before I could remember, I knew there was a God. Nothing can prove it, because to me it does not need to be proven.

Daniel, do not try to argue yourself into believing what someone else believes about God. I did that and I failed. Simply be with God. Look to God. Pray and meditate and do spiritual work, and let your heart guide you, not the words and pontifications of those who most likely have no idea of God. All they have are dead words and rules and regulations.

I know Christianity, and I know born-again Christianity. If you are born again, is it not said that you have the Holy Spirit within you? What does the Holy Spirit tell you? If you find yourself unable to be a Baptist, if you find yourself unable to condemn other faiths, if you find yourself unable to judge people - if you find yourself unable to believe "The Baptist Faith And Message," is it not at least possible that this is the Holy Spirit telling you, "This is not right for you?"

Think about it. And read this, carefully, many times:

http://www.creative-native.com/lyrics/godislyr.htm

[greybeta.livejournal.com]

Interesting. So you would say that there is no absolute Truth, except for the Truth that resides in us.

By the way, I hate poetry. And by extension, I hate lyrics.

[happydog.livejournal.com]

(holds head in hands)

you missed the point, completely, my friend.

[greybeta.livejournal.com]

Just be straighforward and tell me the point. The lyrics obliterated whatever coherent thoughts I had about your comment. Please? :)

[happydog.livejournal.com]

OK. I thought my points were pretty clear. But apparently not.

1) Don't let anybody tell you what to believe about God, because They Don't Know. The only way you can find anything out about God is by confronting God directly.

2) Don't let anybody tell you that you are anything less than a Christian because of how you write, or what you listen to, or whether you chew gum or not. Usually such people have an agenda, and that agenda usually is for you to follow them, rather than to find out God for yourself.

I am a bit saddened that the Leonard Cohen poem (it was only made into a song by Buffy Ste. Marie later) didn't penetrate. I'm a bit more saddened that you "hate" poetry. If 1 Cor. 13:1-13 isn't a poem, what is it? What are the Psalms?

There is much bad poetry in the world and many bad lyrics, but good poetry, good lyrics, are the soul speaking. To miss out on poetry simply because it was poorly taught to you is a crime and a sin, and your teachers in school should be made to pay somehow for polluting that pure well for you.

[greybeta.livejournal.com]

Everytime I read try to read your first comment, my brain has these red alarms that go off that say "POETRY==BAD!!!!!" and suddenly I can't read it anymore. I'm serious.

1) Makes sense.
2) Everyone has an agenda. Everyone.

Sorry about the Leonard Cohen poem. And, um, I should tell you that I hate Psalms.

I suppose I should work on that poetry thing. But you have no idea the pain I associate with poetry. Oh, God, WHY DO YOU HAVE TO REMIND ME?!? NOOOOOO...

(it's okay now, I'm just sucking my thumb, I just have to, uh...repress memories of senior AP English)

[happydog.livejournal.com]

Pontius Pilate asked Jesus, "What is Truth?" when it was standing right in front of him. Pilate wanted an answer in words, something logical that made sense, something that he could argue, something that he could point to and say, "This is the Truth." What did Jesus say back to him? Nothing. Because Pilate was in the presence of Truth and was too blinded by intellect to see.

In your tradition and in your holy book I find these words:

John 16:13-15

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.

All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.

If you want to know Absolute Truth, this scripture, in Jesus' own words according to John, seems to say in no uncertain terms that you must heed the Holy Spirit in order to find truth. That same Holy Spirit, which you received at the moment of conversion according to mainstream Protestant theology.

Notice that he says "all truth." That implies that there is a vast sea of truth, an ocean of truth. "He shall take of mine and shall shew it unto you," as in taking a cupfull of that truth, as much as you can bear, the truth that you are supposed to have for you, and give it unto you.

Better?

[greybeta.livejournal.com]

*looks to his left*
*looks to his right*
*looks up, down, and every which way*
*looks behind him again*

Yes, much better, no bad poetry coming to get me. So my moment of conversion contains the Holy Spirit I need to understand truth. Interesting.

[happydog.livejournal.com]

There is some division on that. Many Pentecostals maintain that there needs to be a second "baptism of the Holy Spirit" after conversion. However, most Protestant denominations (including the Baptists and Methodists) maintain that one receives the Holy Spirit at the moment of conversion.

But no mas. Now that you've got it, are you going to listen to it?

[kimmaline.livejournal.com]

*applauds*


Fuckin-A.

[happydog.livejournal.com]

thank ya, ma'am.

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

The strict Baptists might consider you a heretic, but then the Pope thinks the strict Baptists are heretics too. There are so many different versions of Christianity in the world- and a good thing too!

[greybeta.livejournal.com]

I remember you saying once you were studying to be a minister, but decided not to. Care to explain more, or direct me to a post?

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

Actually I went all the way and served as a minister for ten years (1976-86)- in the Church of England (Episcopal church.) I got out for a variety of reasons- the most compelling of which was that I had lost my faith.

These days I'd describe myself as an agnostic. The universe is just too big and complicated and old and weird for any creed to make sense of it.

[greybeta.livejournal.com]

I see. Coincidentally, my best friend that I've known since kindergarten is studying to become an Episcopal priest. I must check out this Episcopalian Church sometime. Especially since my friend should be reading the litany there at the local church soon...

[poliphilo.livejournal.com]

You might find yourself at home in the episcopal church. Essentially it's the great British compromise- an attempt by the Tudor monarchs (at the time of the Reformation)to create a national church to which all but diehard catholics and extreme protestants would feel able to belong.

[kimmaline.livejournal.com]

D, if you are happy, and you live your life to the fullest...and you try to always be good to others, then I cannot believe that there is ANY God that would think badly of you for that.

Make decisions for yourself. Listen to your heart.