greybeta | D2’s Heresies, The Resurrection Requiem

Evil exists because God allows it to exist.

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kmg-365.livejournal.com

God "allows" it to exist because he gave us free will. It is up to his children to decide whether they will succumb to temptation. And, if they do, it is up to them to decide whether or not they will seek forgiveness.

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God didn't give us free will. He gave us independence. What we do with that independence creates good or evil independent of God's influence. Sure, he -could- take a hand, but he's not likely to unless we ask him. Our independence creates good and evil.

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kmg-365.livejournal.com

God didn't give us free will. He gave us independence

Interesting. Although what was hammered into us in Catholic school was the concept of "free will," which really doesn't differ much from independence. We are free to choose what path we take. While he is omni-everything, he doesn't interfere in our lives.

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The concept of free will and independence are basically the same, the key difference is semantic. The idea being that if we are reminded that our choices are not free, but come with costs associated with them we will be more mindful of those costs when making our choices. In other words, the choice ain't free, but it is ours to make.

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Evl has to exist so good can be defined. Saints need sinners.

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Evil doesn't exist at all as an opposite. It is not the opposite of good, it is simply the lack of good. THe oft-used analogy is candles and shadows. Shadows are not created by the light, they are created by something preventing the light from reaching the space the shadow occupies.

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That yes, God could step in an eradicate the effects of our choices that we call 'evil'. It'd be easy enough, just take away from us the ability to choose. Or better yet, just provide us with the full knowledge of the consequences of our actions. Every human being believes in what they do, they believe at the very least that they can 'get away with it'. The truth is that no one gets away with it and God could allow us to know that. Without ignorance of the true consequences, we would never make mistakes. If we aren't capable of making mistakes, would we really be making choices at all? Might as well take away our independence entirely.

I believe that ignorance is a necessary state. The importance of avoiding a particular mistaks cannot be fully understood unless one has made theat mistake themselves.

Evil exists because it is necessary as a teaching tool.

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Profound.

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By the way, the "Christ rose from the dead three days later" thing bothers me. He died on a Friday, right? I've heard early Friday afternoon, removed from the cross and placed in the tomb before the Sabbath officially arrived. Friday afternoon, say 3:00 approximate. One day passes; it's Saturday 3:00. And, a little over twelve hours later--we'll say 15 or 16, so it's 6 or 7 AM on a Sunday morning--Christ rose from the dead. Easter Sunday, correct? That was barely more than a day and a half. Where's the other day and a half here?

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Am I just being too nitpicky?

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hummingwolf.livejournal.com

I've heard your basic argument used to support the idea that Jesus was crucified on Wednesday. But the usual interpretation is that the writers weren't counting full 24-hour periods, but parts of 3 calendrical days. Crucified Friday, still dead Saturday, and on the third day he rose from the dead.

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Makes sense. Like I said, I'm just nitpicky.

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2. I believe that Christ suffered and died and was brought back to life, nothing is beyond the power of God to accomplish.

3. There are no laws of science, there are only hypotheses. Once an exception is proved, the hypothesis becomes invalid. Clearly the hypotheses contradicted by Christ's resurrection are wrong. Nevertheless, they are so close to accurate that until we find better ones, these hypotheses will work fine.

4. Evil is a result of the actions of men and yes, evil spirits; God gave independence not only to us, but to those that followed Lucifer. God is willing to allow us our independence, Satan is not and through temptation and whatever spiritual powers he and his may possess they will try to cause us to commit error. It may not be an equal struggle, but if we are uncertain we can always call for backup through prayer. The only unforgivable sin is refusing to ask for forgiveness.

5. Believing in Christ is not enough to earn salvation, one must combine faith with works. Knowing Christ disapproves of your actions is not enough to be saved, one must also humble themselves to sincerely ask forgiveness. It is possible for a man to believe in Christ and yet be too proud to rely on Christ's sacrifice, to believe he can 'go it alone' so to speak. There are a lot of excuses for this behavior, but most of them are some form of pride. I would call that person prideful. There are other reasons to be in doubt I suppose, but this is the one I think is most common under my stated beliefs.

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2. But, can God create a rock he can't lift?

3. What about the Law of Gravity?

4. I like this idea of independence. It explains it a lot etter.

5. I may be one of those men who believe in Christ yet is too proud to rely on Christ's sacrifice. I have to work on that.

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2. To examine the question from a practical direction I would say that yes, God can create guidelines that he himself cannot break. Such as never ever taking away from us the independence he granted us.

3. You can be sure that while the layman calls it the Law of Gravity, a physicist would be the first to point out that Newtonian physics do not accurately reflect the universe except on a very small scale, say, planetary. On the cosmis scale, the world works with relativistic model and every year that model is refined to more accurately reflect what is going on. You might say that it isn't so much the laws of science that define the universe so much as the universe which defines the laws of science.

4. The nice thing about that explanation is it entirely circumvents the predestination vs free will argument.

5. I know I do it, often.

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I am Mormon.

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Ah yes, the Church of Latter Day Saints. Did you go on your two year mission trip already?

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